Lisa Bilyeu spent 8 years of her life as a supportive housewife (which she described as “mundane purgatory”) until her husband’s fast growing company, Quest Nutrition, required her to dive head first into business. Energized by her work, she started giving herself permission to make small moves in another direction. These decisions ultimately led Lisa to become co-founder of a billion-dollar company, an international leader in the world of personal growth and now, author empowering women to become the heroes of their own lives.
Lisa has written her first book, Radical Confidence: 10 No-BS Lessons on Becoming the Hero of Your Own Life, being released this week. In this show, we discuss her life, her book and how she did it: how she transformed her life from housewife to successful businesswoman and what it took to get there.
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Not all of us find ourselves at rock bottom before we realize something needs to change, or that we are not where we want to be. Sometimes life can continue for years in a direction until one day we wake up and realize that we actually want something different.
For Lisa, she had become the supportive housewife her upbringing had taught her was her ultimate goal. And she was great at it. For 8 years every morning her husband, Tom, would wake up to his work clothes laid out beside the bed and would come home from the gym with lunch prepared and ready to eat. Anything he needed help with, even at work, Lisa was there and never questioned her role. In her book, Radical Confidence, Lisa calls this place “mundane purgatory”: that place where you’ve settled because life is just good enough and comfortable. And that, she says, is an even more dangerous place to be than rock bottom because how the hell do you wake yourself up from that?
It was only when Lisa was thrust into the clutches of a rapidly-growing company that she began facing all of her insecurities, her lack of abilities and where she was no longer comfortable. And this ended up being the very place where she ultimately found herself.
How comfortable are you in your life? Have you settled into a world where life is just good enough and you are rarely challenged or have to face any of your fears? Or are you awake and living out the dreams within you…
“It really starts with just saying I am going to bet on myself… no one else is going to bet on you if you don’t.” – Lisa Bilyeu
Bet on Yourself
It’s one thing to realize what we want in life; it’s a whole other thing to think we deserve it or have what it takes to actually get what we want. How often do we set out to chase a new dream or goal, only to give up at the first challenge that comes our way? Maybe it’s the voices of the people around us or the culture or beliefs we grew up in, or perhaps it’s the negative voices in our own heads that cause us to hesitate and question ourselves. When we first wake up to a realization that we are not where we want to be, it can be very easy to doubt that we are even waking up to anything, or that we could possibly have something different.
Lisa grew up in a family and culture that had one goal for her as a woman: to get married. Once she realized that what she wanted in life was far more than just being a housewife, Lisa was faced with an even bigger challenge: she knew she was the only one who could get herself there, but how?
A previous guest on my show, Amber Rae, talks about the importance of alignment and tuning into yourself. In our conversation, she outlines some tips on how to make space from the voices around you so you can truly get in touch with your inner self to know what you want and what makes you happy.
Once you know what you want, to start moving in that direction you need to make a commitment to bet on yourself, as Lisa says, and give yourself permission to start making small decisions in a new direction.
The Process Can Be Messy, Quirky and Weird
A common point made in almost all methods of successful change is the importance of writing things down. Whether it’s journaling or mind-dumping, post-it notes or whiteboards, the process of change involves getting the thoughts out of your head and onto something tangible where they can become real.
One of the big takeaways from my conversation with Lisa was the reminder that everyone’s process is unique and different. While Lisa and I both love to use Evernote on our phones as a place for mind-dumps, I also love meditation (it works for me) but Lisa found that meditation doesn’t help her to clear her mind. Lisa has realized that her best places for mind-clearing are while she’s lifting weights in the gym or coloring in her art studio for hours with her phone turned off. For each of us, the process will look different. The importance is in the principle of writing things down, and then repetition.
Another part of Lisa’s process involves what she calls emotional boosts. These are special cues she places into her life when dealing with particular fears: she will write messages on post-it notes and put them on her mirror, put random alarms on her phone to remind her that “you’ve got this” and she wears a Wonder Woman necklace so that every time she looks in the mirror she remembers that she can do anything.
It will take time to figure out what works for you and what your process is. Just remember that simply listening to someone else and copying exactly what they do may not work for you. But if you pay attention to the principle behind it there are always ways to tweak the process so that it is uniquely you.
Of course, with any kind of change life will become uncomfortable for a while. And the people who love us the most or we care about the most could very well be the most resistant to the change and difficult to talk to. Especially if we’re talking about changing directions in our lives, the people closest to us will be the most affected, and this can cause friction. But these conversations must happen.
Out of this entire show, Lisa’s advice on difficult conversations is likely the best nuggets of wisdom I have ever heard on this topic, so it is worth sharing here too:
- Have compassion with the person you’re speaking to. They are going to have their own perspective, their own emotions and feelings about the change, so it is important to honor that and give space for it.
- Give them the grace to have their own opinion that they must say out loud.
- Finally, if you want the relationship to work, approach the conversation as a team with the whole goal being that you’re in it together and you both want to win together (Lisa uses the analogy of tennis: whether you’re playing singles on opposite sides of the net looking to score points on each other, or playing doubles on the same team having each other’s backs and looking to win together).
The changes Lisa was making and the conversation she had with her husband Tom, could have easily ended up in divorce. Instead, it made them a stronger team than ever.
If you can approach difficult conversations with these tips and be open to the opinions and feelings of the person you’re speaking to, you’re well on your way to helping your closest allies hopefully become your greatest supporters in the change.
One of the most crippling fears we commonly have around change is the risk of failure. No one likes to fail. It stings, it’s embarrassing and it can be painful. But as Lisa so pointedly states, “Tell me one successful person that hasn’t failed”. There isn’t one. So if we know that and can accept that failure is an inevitable part of change and success and change, we can change the way we relate to failure.
Rather than identifying with failure and letting it say something about our worth, we can begin to see failure as a natural stepping stone to success. Rather than allowing failure to make us feel incompetent, we can turn it around to be a beautiful example that we are caring about our lives and trying to move towards our dreams.
At the end of the show, Lisa shares a story about how changing their perspective on a failure created an enormous win for their company. She says if you can look at every failure as an opportunity, it forces you to get out of your own emotions and think differently. And if you can do that, it will give you a path to focus on instead of dwelling on the failure.
I had a great conversation with Lisa Bilyeu and am excited for the release of her first book, so hope you enjoy the show and make sure to check out Radical Confidence: 10 No-BS Lessons on Becoming the Hero of Your Own Life!
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Chase Jarvis: Hey, everybody. What's up? It's Chase. Welcome to another episode of The Chase Jarvis Live Show here on CreativeLive, the show where I unpack amazing people's brands with the goal of helping you live your dreams. Today's guest is Lisa Bilyeu. If you're not familiar with Lisa, she was the co-founder of a little billion dollar company called Quest Nutrition. You know those little bars? Her and her husband, Tom, sold that. And she has been on an absolute tear on all kinds of different media fronts.
Chase Jarvis: They've been building a company called Impact Theory, and along the way, she happened to write an incredible book about radical confidence, which whether you see yourself as someone who's confident or not is an absolutely must read. In this particular show, we dive into some of those key cornerstone, the ideas behind it, specifically the awareness of what she calls the purgatory of the mundane.
Chase Jarvis: Are you asleep and having difficulty changing because your life is just okay enough? You've maybe been in those sorts of relationships before. She talks about how our belief systems either harm us or hurt us, how the willingness to trust yourself, how dreaming is actually a gamble, and what can you do to learn to bet on yourself. The idea of turning your kryptonite, the thing that you're weak at, how do you turn that into a superpower. The messy creative process and what is more important, your goal or your ego?
Chase Jarvis: Last but not least, one of my favorite elements of this conversation is how to have difficult conversations. When you decide that you want to change your life, there will be resistance. Resistance from other people in your life, even those people who love you dearly.
Chase Jarvis: Lisa articulates in perhaps the most clear way that I have ever, of any guest I've had, specifically how to have those conversations. It's pure gold. I'm going to get out of the way and let you enjoy this conversation. Yours truly, Lisa Bilyeu. All about confidence and transforming your life.
Chase Jarvis: Lisa, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to the show.
Lisa Bilyeu: Oh my God. Are you kidding? Chase, thank you for having me. I've been so excited to come on. I literally can't believe that I'm on your podcast. It's an honor.
Chase Jarvis: Wow. It is a treat to have you. And we were just, before we were recording, confessing to listeners and watchers, because we got a video feed here as well, that we're trying to remember the last time we had bumped into one another. And it was at your house in lovely Los Angeles. It's been a while and a lot has happened, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the show. You've been up to some really interesting things.
Chase Jarvis: And I want to set the stage for people who may not be familiar with you or your work, the dozen listeners who might not be familiar with you. I want to ask you to, in your own words, tell a little backstory. How do you identify, what are some of the descriptions, characterizations of you and your work that you use such that our audience might quickly get familiar with you?
Lisa Bilyeu: Yeah. So, I'll give a quick recap. I met my husband when I was very young. I had a very traditional Greek background, but I definitely thought that I was going to make movies. Big, massive dreams. And then I ended up slipping into, being a very supportive housewife for my husband.
Lisa Bilyeu: And for eight years, I gave up on my dreams, I gave up on my hopes and what I really wanted in life, I think because I really was taught to have the mindset of that was going to be my end goal. My end goal in life was going to be a wife and have kids. And so, when I ended up there, I actually didn't question it. And that's what I call, in the book, purgatory of the mundane.
Lisa Bilyeu: For eight years, I didn't hit rock bottom, I didn't have anything that jolted me awake, I was literally in purgatory and my life was just mundane enough that I didn't feel like I had the right to ask for anything more. And so, flash-forward, my husband was going out just trying to make enough money. And he became absolutely miserable. I said I don't care about money anymore, we need to actually make a change. Happiness is all that matters.
Lisa Bilyeu: That activated an idea between him and his business partners that was known as Quest Nutrition. And so, I just helped as the good Greek housewife does. I just helped him out on the side in shipping. I was shipping bars from my living room floor, but what I didn't expect is that we would grow at 57000%.
Lisa Bilyeu: And in that, being thrown into the deep end, not knowing what the hell I was doing, facing my inadequacies and my lack of talent and my lack of knowledge every single day, but having to fight to save my house, because it was up for collateral, I ended up realizing who I was. And I ended up realizing, "Oh my God, I'm capable of so much more."
Lisa Bilyeu: And that became the catalyst to the changing of my life, helping build Quest that turned into a billion dollar company, helping build Impact Theory with my husband and now having my own show Women of Impact and writing the book.
Chase Jarvis: Very well articulated. And now there's absolutely no question in anyone's mind why I wanted to have you on the show. Your perspective is incredible. And I do want to call out specifically your book. Congratulations.
Lisa Bilyeu: Thank you.
Chase Jarvis: It's called Radical Confidence: 10 No-BS Lessons on Becoming the Hero of Your Own Life. Love the style as well. It's been so fun to read. I shared that I was reading it via PDF because it's a couple of months here before the book comes out technically, and I'm grateful to get these advance copies. So, thank you for thinking of me and it's just amazing.
Chase Jarvis: And as I shared also before we started recording, the topic of confidence and as you articulate very thoughtfully and earnestly in the book is like so many other things in our life. It is a muscle that can be developed. It is a set of skills that can be learned, and it's not a genetic gift as so many of us have been either taught or fallen to the trap of believing. So, let's go back to London.
Lisa Bilyeu: Let's do it.
Chase Jarvis: Obviously we can hear the British accent.
Lisa Bilyeu: The accent.
Chase Jarvis: How does one get from London, as you described yourself, I'm not going to use all of the words because you were very critical of yourself as a young, I'll just use the word awkward teen-
Lisa Bilyeu: That's very polite of you.
Chase Jarvis: ... young, awkward teen in London. Why don't you start there and give us a little bit, why awkward and how does one go from being in the UK as a teenager to living in Los Angeles, even prior to where you picked up your story on meeting Tom, who's also a dear friend and a friend of the show and I've been a guest on a number of Impact Theory things that you guys have created, and is a wonderful human.
Chase Jarvis: So, let's talk about meeting Tom, but also how do you get from there to here? Because right now, I think there's a lot of people who are saying, "Hmm, I want to get closer to my dreams and my dreams might not be in, fill in the blank, wherever I am." So, how did you escape the trappings of being that awkward teen in London and at least make the first step on the journey that you're on now?
Lisa Bilyeu: Yeah, such a great question. So, the truth is I was trapped for a long time. And there's still part of me that's emotionally trapped as that young girl. And to be honest, as an adult, I've actually just given myself grace to go, "It may just be a part of you. And instead of trying to ignore it or forget that that existed, how can I use it as a actually beautiful thing in my life?"
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, when I look back now and I look at the times where I was teased and bullied, I was a very traditional Greek gal. So I had a bit of a unibrow and I had one of those head braces, Chase, that goes all the way round the neck. Remember back in those days?
Chase Jarvis: A headgear, yeah.
Lisa Bilyeu: I had one of those. Yeah, headgear. And so, I was just teased. And I was mildly dyslexic. I held my pen wrong, so they put me in a special class because they thought that for somehow holding a pen wrong would dictate my future. But as a kid, when you're already being bullied, being put in one of those classes just gives you another reason to get bullied.
Lisa Bilyeu: But as a kid, I still had massive dreams of coming to Hollywood and making movies. Because movies for me were such a beautiful escape. It became a place where I could... I watched a lot of '80s movies, so I watched like Karate Kids and Adventures in Babysitting and things like that. And it gave me hope. There was this beautiful stories back in the '80s movies where it was this underdog story, but definitely relatable to a young teen. And I would just see how much I could get lost in these movies and feel a certain way.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, as I got older, I realized the power of content and I realized how beautiful you can impact someone with video, music, just the pace of which you cut something can impact someone. You can actually make someone cry. That's such a beautiful form, to be able to pull at someone's emotions like that.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, I definitely, as a teen, got lost in that. And getting lost in that made me dream about one day that I would come to Hollywood. Now, growing up in North London, where you come from a very traditional Greek background, no one has ever married anyone outside of my Greek religion, no one has left countries except, actually, that's a lie. They went from Cyprus, so I'm actually Cypriot, and my family went to London. But you never move away from your family. The only reason why you do that, which was my dad's reason back then was, it was to make enough money.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, he had to move in order to provide for his family because he grew up in a tiny, tiny village in the mountains of Cypress. So, all the time growing up, I definitely got subliminal messages from my parents, from my grandmother that I would eventually be a stay-at-home wife and support my husband and have children.
Lisa Bilyeu: Now, if that's your dream and that's what you're doing, that's so beautiful. That can be something that can be so filling to so many women. But for this young team, it really wasn't. I was like, "I don't want to do that." I had these big dreams. But over time, when you get messages, time and time again, when you're told that's a big dream for a little girl like you, when you're told by your grandmother who meant well, but when I would fall and scrape my knee as a kid, she would come running over and say to me, "Oh, it's okay. You're going to be okay by the time you get married."
Lisa Bilyeu: Now, when you think about what that message means, you're going to be okay by the time you get married, it's really telling a young, Greek girl that, "Hey, the whole reason why you're around, the end goal is to get married." As long as you're okay by the time you get married, everything else is going to be fine.
Lisa Bilyeu: In backtracking, I really do understand where my mindset came from. But I was still a bull, I was a teenager, I was like, "I really want to study film. I really want to study film." So, I got a film degree after a massive argument I had with my dad because my dad eventually said, "Well, you know what, fine. Study film. You're going to be a housewife any way. So, it doesn't really matter."
Chase Jarvis: Wow.
Lisa Bilyeu: Now, Chase, in hindsight, it's not like my dad meant ill will. My dad just had a perspective of a guy who grew up in a tiny village in Cyprus. Every single woman in his family didn't get an education. They didn't even go to high school. So, for his perspective was, "Whatever you study, you're going to be a stay-at-home wife anyway." That was just his perspective.
Lisa Bilyeu: So I didn't take that personally, but I fought, I fought, I fought. I eventually went to film school. Right after film school I was like, I'd learn all the technical things. I learned how to use a light meter. I learned how to process film. I learn how to, like in those black bags and, I learned all of that.
Lisa Bilyeu: But when I left, I was like, "I've just spent the last three years studying something and I still have no idea how to direct." And that was my goal. So, once I realized that, my friend gave me a brochure. And she's like, "Oh, there's a film school in Los Angeles. And it's actually called the New York Film Academy. It's just eight weeks. You go there and you study directing."
Lisa Bilyeu: So, I went back to my dad, I tried to persuade him and the agreement was, "All right, dad, if you pay for me to go to America, I will absolutely, when I get back, I will look for a job." That was our deal. And of course, for him it was just getting a job until I get married, just to put a point in that.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, he paid. And so, I flew to LA and I was like, "Okay. I've got eight weeks to learn everything I possibly can." Day one, I walk in and my husband works for the company. So, a week later turns out he became my teacher. So, two weeks in of me being in Los Angeles, the person who is now my husband was actually started out as being my teacher.
Chase Jarvis: Oh man, what did your dad say? Did you say I'm not coming home?
Lisa Bilyeu: So, that was a whole big thing. I didn't tell him because being a traditional Greek dad, it was like, well, first of all, he's an American. Second of all, it was like, Tom and I both thought it was going to be a summer fling. Neither of us actually thought... And it is a school for adults, so anyone listening that may not know my husband, there's only four years difference between us, just to make sure that that's very clear.But we just thought it was going to be a summer fling.
Lisa Bilyeu: And the beauty in that though, the beauty was neither of us had any pressure and neither of us went into the situation with any pretense. And it was weird how that one thing on our first day, we started talking about things I've never spoken about with guys before. Like where he just would matter of factly just be curious about my life. Like why do you believe in God?
Lisa Bilyeu: Now, I'm a Greek girl that came from North London. I've never been asked that question in my life. And so, my first answer, Chase, was because my dad told me to. And I was 21-years-old. Now, meeting someone who's not afraid to just ask questions. When you have a conversation where there's no pretense, there's no malice behind any questions. It really was just such pure, what is the word? Curiosity. That we both ended up just being ourselves.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so after that, I was like, "I've never met a guy like this before. He's breaking all expectations, all thoughts that I had of what I thought I wanted in a guy. I thought I wanted a guy that very much took care of their appearance, drove a nice car. I was trained almost to believe that's what a woman should look for in a guy.
Lisa Bilyeu: And here he was, he had the messy car. He never cared what he wore, but Chase, on that first date, he opened the car door for me. And I was like, "What the hell, chivalry actually exists? And so, these little moments where I had a preconceived notion of what my life would be, what my partner would be like, who I would actually go for.
Lisa Bilyeu: And because I didn't put any pressure on myself, all these new elements that I didn't even realize I would be drawn to were so amazing. And I was like, "Okay. Well, let's just see where this goes." And so, every day we left each date and it was like, "Oh, what are you doing tomorrow? Nothing? Cool, let's hang out."
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, in hindsight, it became this, what do you think you want? Are you open to exploring other things? Because you may be actually surprised at seeing the things you want are actually not the things you want. And that became a massive realization of how much my belief system, of what I thought I wanted came into question.
Lisa Bilyeu: And it was like, why do I actually believe this? Where did this come from? And it all stems from the messaging we get when we are, when we're kids.
Chase Jarvis: It's a brilliant articulation of something that through your lens, you are able to articulate it through having a very traditional family structure that had end goals. But the same is true with everyone, right? We've got these beliefs, these mindsets that are established basically for us and it's our job to unlearn them.
Chase Jarvis: And part of that unlearning to take a page out of your book, PA-PAM-PAM-CH, is the willingness, if you will, to trust yourself. And the intro chapter to the book is called Your Dreams Are A Gamble. Bet on yourself. Is it gambling and betting or is it investing? It doesn't really matter. But at what point did you feel like you had the permission or you had unlearned enough to start to bet on yourself?
Lisa Bilyeu: That's such a complex question because you even just said to trust yourself, right? This may be a curve ball, but I think even that is a skillset you have to practice. And trusting yourself blindly is actually a little foolish because like anything, it becomes, like when we talk about instinct, for instance, right? Instinct to me is a skill that gets developed. You build instinct over time where you're like, "Huh? That one time three years ago where someone gave me that look has actually stayed with me. And the instinct now has developed in my mind that that look means something negative," right?
Lisa Bilyeu: Instinct becomes a scoreboard, if you will, of the things that have happened. And now it becomes this, what is it? Like maybe the wiring between your gut and your brain where you almost can't articulate it yet, but your body gets a sensation.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, even when I talk about trust, I don't just blindly trust myself. I go, "Do I have credibility in this area? And what are the things that I may not be seeing?" And maybe right now I don't trust that I'm going to know everything and that's okay. But right now it feels right. So, I'm going to take an account of how I approach this. And if my instincts are right, if I can trust myself and if not, then I can learn from it. Instead of beating ourselves up that we thought we could trust ourselves, we try something it fails, and then we beat ourselves up over, oh my God. See, you can't trust your opinion. You have to listen to everyone else. So, even that trust thing is very tricky. I don't think I answered your question.
Chase Jarvis: No, you nailed it. I guess the only thing that I would like to further excavate is, was that a moment or what it is? Was it a series of a thousand moments? And where do you feel like you are in that journey now?
Lisa Bilyeu: Yeah, it was a series of a thousand moments. And actually, this is something that haunts me. I wish I could say it was this moment and this is what happened. Right? It's why I said this part of me where purgatory, the mundane, is actually more dangerous than hitting rock bottom. Because how the hell do you wake yourself up in those moments?
Lisa Bilyeu: I didn't have a flash moment where I was like, oh my God. Now I can trust myself. Now I can bet on myself. It wasn't like that. I got into the situation of being stuck for eight years because I made very small, slow decisions, day in, day out that led me there. And to get out of that, it became recognizing, A, I had the choice that was huge. Oh, I have a choice of these small, little steps I'm making in this direction.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, if I had a choice and I got here myself was I take ownership over that. I find that very empowering. Then I now can start making small choices to undo it, to go backwards. But that means I have to trust, to your point, that I'm moving in the right direction. And that's it. It's not trusting that I'm going to do a great job. It's not trusting that I'm going to know my shit. Sorry, I'm not sure if I can swear.
Chase Jarvis: Oh, yeah.
Lisa Bilyeu: Okay, good.
Chase Jarvis: No, let it rip.
Lisa Bilyeu: If I can trust my shit. The point being is, I've given myself permission to move in this direction. And Lisa, you're going to mess up a thousand times. Lisa, you're going to fall on your face and it will hurt. It will sting. Failure sucks. But the truth is I've recognized that where I am today is because I made those small decisions.
Lisa Bilyeu: And right now, all I need to do is give myself permission to start making small decisions in the other direction. And doing that really freaking starts with just saying, I am going to bet on myself. Again, it's not blind confidence. It's just making that commitment because I think that that's where you have to start. No one else is going to bet on you if you don't.
Chase Jarvis: It seems like a piece of your recipe, if you will, or an attribute that comes across so clearly in this conversation is your ability to honestly self-reflect. Is that something you've always had?
Lisa Bilyeu: No.
Chase Jarvis: Or is that also something you've developed, and was there some sort of a reckoning?
Lisa Bilyeu: Was there a reckoning? Not really, but 1000% my self-awareness is actually my key because everything I do, everything from my emotion, I call it emotional sobriety to being very focused on my goal. All of that is very difficult. And so, when I approach these things, I say to myself, "What are the things that are getting in my way?" That's where I start. "What are the things that are getting in my way? Okay, Lisa, you don't know this," right?
Lisa Bilyeu: In this moment, am I right or not? Because that's the thing. Sometimes we don't want to hear the negative thoughts that are in our mind. And the negative thoughts were actually one massive thing that kept me stuck. It was the Lisa, you're not good enough. Who do you think you are to ask for more? All of that. The noise in the head.
Lisa Bilyeu: And one of the biggest things that I did is I realized that that noise can be crippling to so many of us. The fear, the imposter syndrome, whatever word you want to use can really keep us stuck. So, when I started to think about how on earth I don't let this get me stuck. I literally was like, "What's my problem?" It's this. And now I just go, "How on earth do I either stop it or change it so that I can keep on my path?"
Lisa Bilyeu: And that was the thing I was like, "Okay. Everyone's telling me to be nice to myself. Everyone's saying, 'use soft language, Lisa. I can't believe that you're mean to yourself.'" And I really tried, Chase. And I was like, in the effort of trying and failing, now I just felt worse about myself because I'm like, everyone's telling me I need to be nicer to myself. I can't, and now I'm beating myself about how useless I am that I can't even be nice to myself.
Lisa Bilyeu: So I'm like, this is just a death spiral. So, what serves my goal? What moves me forward or what holds me back, just look at. And that's where my self-awareness started from. Is not judging myself. And I kept saying, and you'll hear me say that a lot. With no judgment, with grace, with no judgment, with grace. And that's what I started to do.
Lisa Bilyeu: With no judgment and utter grace start writing down all the things that are getting in my way. And now start assessing how on earth I don't let that get in my way. And that's what I did. So, I started with my negative voice, I realized my strategy wasn't helping. It was just becoming even more overwhelming because I was beating myself up. And now I go, "Okay, I've got a choice. I can let this be detrimental to me or I can think of a different way."
Lisa Bilyeu: And I love using fun language so I don't take myself too seriously. So I started saying, how can this kryptonite become your superpower? Language is powerful. So, I could say other words that could really cripple me, but I knew I had to take the negative voice and make it lighthearted. So, I started to position it. How can I take this kryptonite? Turn it into my superpower. What if this was your best friend? What if this voice, just like a friend, just like your partner, you want them to be honest with you, right? You don't want them to just BS you and make you feel good all the time. The whole point in trusting someone is so that they can be very honest with you. So I said, what if I did that with my negative voice?
Lisa Bilyeu: It's my best friend. I called it the bitch in my head and now I'm turning into my BFF. I'm going to put my arm around her. I'm going to give her a big, squishy cuddle. And I'm going to ask her, "What can I listen to? What are you trying to tell me?" And then taking that information with grace and go, "Great. Thank you for letting me know all the things I'm bad at. Now, how can I actually get better?"
Lisa Bilyeu: And in that process of how I just broke it down, is how I started to become so self-aware without judging myself, but becoming aware of all the habits I was doing that I didn't even realize I was doing, becoming very aware of the way that I was showing up every day. And I was saying, "I want this goal," but the truth was I wasn't actually being in alignment.
Lisa Bilyeu: My actions weren't in an alignment with what I was saying I wanted. And this all became very aware to me as I started to just write down, what's the voice in my head saying? Don't judge yourself, Lisa, don't beat yourself up. Just write it down. And now over time, you start to recognize what the thoughts are in your head and how that is actually impacting how you show up.
Chase Jarvis: Brilliant. One level deeper. Can you articulate the, is there some specific mechanics that you would advocate for writing it down? Because writing it down is a little bit of a generic term for getting it on paper. Do you do that, is it Morning Pages? Do you have a notebook that you get all that stuff on and you refer to it every day? Give me a little bit of the structure that you either use, used at some point, or now having recognized all this and written a beautiful book about it, what do you prescribe?
Lisa Bilyeu: Yeah. So, I'm very messy when it comes to this sort of thing. And it was interesting because in writing the book, I really was like, I don't know what I'm going to say, because there's so much messiness to the way we think, to the way that we show up, to the way we function. But for your listeners to really be able to execute on this, because I'm all about how do we actually tactically do this? It really was, okay, sit back and say, "What is your goal?" Write down right now what that goal is.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, let's say for me it was, I'm going to use a real example that I use. My goal is impact. Okay. Well, let's actually get very specific because we can all trick ourselves into going, "Oh no, I'm impacting, I'm impacting." But what does that actually mean?
Lisa Bilyeu: So, step one is getting the goal and being so succinct on your goal that you know, when the negative voice comes in, when you start to act in a certain way, you have a very clear way of going, "Does this actually move me towards this or not?" You're removing the emotion from it.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, for me, I was saying I wanted to impact, get very succinct so you know what that means. So, what I did is, okay, what does impact mean? To me, it is, this is my mission. Is that creating content that can help a 14-year-old girl believe in herself so that she doesn't have to spend the next 20 years unwiring the negative mindset I've had to do.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, I know the who, the 14-year-old girl. I'm very, very aware of that. So, everything I do, that's my North Star. I know what? Creating content. That's my mission statement. So, now I know what am I doing every day to create content to move me towards that goal? And then the why is so that she doesn't have to spend the next 20 years having to unwire the negative mindset.
Lisa Bilyeu: So now I've got my actual strategy, my goal of my North Star, as you will, then I start to write down what are all the steps I need to do in order to get there? And sometimes it may just be... In fact, I'm going to back up. So, now I know, "Okay, I know what I'm trying to achieve." I was starting to get a lot of offers in speaking gigs and I kept saying, no. I was too scared, Chase. I was too petrified.
Lisa Bilyeu: The voice in my head was saying, there's no way you're going to get on stage, Lisa. You're going to freeze, you're going to embarrass yourself. And so, I just kept saying no. But once I started to identify what my goal was, and I started to look at all the things I was fearful of, all the things my mind was telling me I shouldn't do, can't do, no right to do, I started to say, the fact that I'm allowing my fear to get in the way is actually getting in the way of my goal.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so now, with no judgment, I need to decide what is more important, my goal or my ego? And it really did come down to that. Because the ego says, "Don't get on stage. You're going to mess up." It's there to protect me, so I recognize it. But it was holding me from my goal.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, right now I would love for your audience to write down what their goal is, write down all the things they're fearful of. And next to it, write down if what they're fearful of actually serves their goal, yes or no? If it doesn't, then great. You don't have to do it. It doesn't actually impact your life or the goal or your mission that you're on.
Lisa Bilyeu: If the answer is yes, with no judgment, give your... We need to give ourselves graces. It's like, it's my life. If I don't want to go on stage because it's actually too fearful for me, no one should have the right to tell me I should.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, I want people right now to say, no one is telling you you should overcome this fear. You have to decide whether overcoming this fear serves you and serves your goal. Now, if you've made that decision, which I did, where I was like, "Okay. No, it doesn't sit well with me. Then my ego is taking president over my goal of speaking on stage. Okay. So I have to speak on stage. But now, Chase, just deciding to speak on stage doesn't actually get you to speak on stage.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, I'm so tactical. I need to write down all these little steps on how I'm going to speak on stage. Because if I just let my mind go to the grand goal of speaking in front of people, done. The negative voice, the self-awareness is definitely just overpowering. It is telling me that I am no good and I know I will not be able to move.
Lisa Bilyeu: So now, once you've made the decision to overcome the fear, it's about getting very tactical on how the hell you get out of your own way. So, my step number one was I'm so petrified just to say yes. And I gave myself the awareness to say, okay, write down all these little fears about getting on stage. Right? So number one, I was just fearful to say yes, okay. Have a plan to overcome saying yes.
Lisa Bilyeu: I told my team, guys, the next time someone reaches out and wants me to do a public speaking gig, I need you to say yes. So, that was my one. I had a tactic and strategy to get over my fear of me saying yes. And it so happened, the very first person that reached out after that was TEDx.
Lisa Bilyeu: But Chase, I made a promise to myself, so I couldn't go back on it. Because remember, I've assessed it, I've done my self-awareness, I've written it down, I know what my goal is. I know why I'm saying yes. So, I've now said yes. Now, what's my next fear? Getting on stage. Like actually stepping on stage.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, okay. Why is that fearful? Because what if I fail? What if I freeze? Okay, Lisa. So the real thing that you're worried about is not knowing what to say. So, I'm listening to the negative voice, I'm fearful, I'm writing it down, I have my North Star. You don't know what to say, okay, how on earth do I mitigate that? Practice. Practice. Practice.
Lisa Bilyeu: One of my favorite movies is Karate Kid. Wax on, wax off until the time you get in the ring. Right? So, that is exactly what I did. I started to practice, I read it out loud, I read it to Tom, I read it to my team. I actually put chairs out in my office and had my team sit there so I could read it out loud. Now, I don't know how many more tips you want, but I literally broke it-
Chase Jarvis: Brilliant.
Lisa Bilyeu: ... down per fear. And instead of worrying about the big thing, and I've got like 30 more that I did to just get on stage. But that is exactly how you start to become self-aware of what's getting in your way, why you're not achieving your goals, not getting overwhelmed, putting in small little tactics on how you overcome it. And to me that becomes, like it actually starts with the self-awareness piece.
Chase Jarvis: Brilliant. One last question on that very tactical. Is this a notebook that you keep by your bedside table or is this a whiteboard that you walk by and look at every day? Where specifically, are you writing this? And is this something that you refer back to often just to get... You're talking about being tactical and I'm curious-
Lisa Bilyeu: Yeah, please.
Chase Jarvis: ... as we all have different methodologies. I'm curious of yours.
Lisa Bilyeu: Yeah, this is actually a great question. I do have different types of methods. So, depending on what I'm trying to do will depend on how I do it. So, I know that if I write something down in my Evernotes, my Evernotes is my go-to thing. That's where I'll have my mind dump, if you will.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, I'll have a section that's called personal or I'll have speaking and I'll just have moments of mind dump. And that will be where I'm in the middle of working out, that's where I get such great ideas where I'm like, "I've just thought of a way to overcome that fear." And I'll quickly just write stuff down. But that just becomes a mind dump. But I find writing something down solidifies my thoughts.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, I must write them down. I can't just leave them up in the air without actually assessing them. But then, if it's something like a fear I'm really trying to get over and I've written down how I'm going to get over it, but I need that emotional hit, I'll write Post-its. Post-its are my jam. I'll write Post-its around, and that's more of an emotional thing.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, let's say I've got, okay, I've got the strategy, I've written it down of how I'm going to overcome certain things. I need still those emotional boosts. So, sometimes I'll do post-its and I'll put it on my mirror, that will just motivate me where it's like, if I'm in the process of overcoming my fear, I'll write a post-it like, this too shall pass, to remind me that the anxiety I'm feeling right now will actually pass.
Lisa Bilyeu: I do alarms on your phone and actually call this, you've got this roulette. So, what I do is, if I'm gearing up for something, I'll put an alarm in my phone. Now, I love, you've got this with a little flex emoji. People can put whatever they want, and then I'll close my eyes.
Lisa Bilyeu: And what I do is I spin the time, and I just close my eyes and I save it. And now what happens is, this alarm goes off at random fricking moments. And the whole point of that is to catch me off guard to remind myself, in all these weird situations that I've put myself in, that I've got this.
Lisa Bilyeu: Now, I do that time and time again, either daily or biweekly or whatever. And it becomes this little drip. I even said at the beginning of this interview, the little drip that my family did on me, that my grandmother did on me on my belief system, it becomes these small stepping stones over time. And I know that.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, how do I lean into it? I do these little drips of motivation along the way. So I have my strategy written down, that's my Evernote. Just to be more succinct. Strategy, Evernote. Self-awareness, Evernote. Motivation in moments, sticky notes. Small drips towards a bigger, audacious goal like getting on stage for a month, I'll have an alarm that just catches me off guard.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, I have all these weird things to help. Organization whiteboards. So, organization is big titles, my three, or four, or five, audacious goals that I have on a whiteboard that I will have sometimes in my office. But again, this is like a rotation. Because like anything, you start to forget it's even there.
Lisa Bilyeu: I don't know if you've got a screen saver on your phone, but you know when you have that image so much, you actually don't even realize the image is there until you change it. So, I always know, I'm a revolving door, I'm a work in progress, it's never all one and done. I think of things. I try things. I hear other people suggest things. I see if that works for me, I wear a Wonder Woman necklace. This is another thing. I wear this Wonder Woman necklace on purpose so that every time I look in the mirror, I see what is possible.
Lisa Bilyeu: But this is something that I've leaned into. Repetition creates habit. So, what I did is every time I put on this necklace almost a month, I'm sure, I can't even remember, but it was something like that. I kept saying, "You're like Wonder Woman. You can do anything. You're like Wonder Woman. You can do anything."
Lisa Bilyeu: Now, look, I know it is abstract, but you do it enough and you really lean into it enough. Now when I look at it, I'm like, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm like Wonder Woman." So, those are some very tactical, little, weird things that I do from very traditional write things down to the subliminal messages I like to try and give myself.
Chase Jarvis: So helpful on so many fronts. And I feel like there's a paradigm for anyone who's out there trying to make changes in their life or transform it at the extreme, that as you look to others who have told their own story or shared it, it seems like they were never in the position that you find yourself in right now.
Chase Jarvis: And so, thank you for sharing that very tactically. And you said it four or five times, weird or quirky. I forget all the words that you use, but all those idiosyncrasies, I think, understanding and leaning into those things for each person, if I'm going to try and summarize and craft into a little nugget for listeners, it's like, those are the things that you've... I've also been an Evernote person since 2009 and I put everything and that's my brain dump.
Chase Jarvis: And whether that's for you and I, I don't know if it's for anyone else who's listening, but experiment with that. And the little yellow sticky notes, or writing on your mirror. Whatever the things are. And I also want to call attention to how many and how diverse your programming is to yourself.
Chase Jarvis: You have, this is how I attack one thing, this is how I manage another. And together, they stitch together a fabric that is some structure for the confidence, the curiosity, the goal setting, and it's just beautiful. Thank you for being so articulate on that point.
Lisa Bilyeu: Well, thank you, Chase. I just want to actually add something there because that's actually a really big point. And I'm really glad you brought this up because I have stumbled through everything that I'm talking about. And the thing was, I just kept feeling badly about myself. Because I would listen. I mean, you've been on my husband's show. We would have so many incredible humans that are talking about mindset and giving tactics and meditation.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, I would try it and I would sit there and try and meditate. I had this little meditation cushion and I was like, "Everyone says this is going to help." I hated it. And it wasn't helping, it was making me more anxious about the fact that I couldn't freaking meditate.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, in those moments of just stumbling, I was like, "All right, what's the goal to clear your mind?" All right, Lisa, well, maybe meditation isn't for you, but pay attention to the fact that everyone's saying clearing your mind is actually imperative. Great. So, if I know the end goal is to clear the mind, but meditation isn't for me, that's the path. What other path can I possibly take?"
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, I started to just explore, what is that Lisa version of it, instead of trying to copy everyone. And so, I realized my version of meditation on the weekends is just drawing. I switch my phone off, I have my pencil, and all I do for hours, hours is I sit at my art desk. And you want to know what brings me freaking clarity? It's that. Working out in the gym, lifting heavy weights. I have my best ideas, which is apparently what happens when you meditate.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so eventually, going back to, I gave myself grace and I didn't judge myself for not being able to meditate. And I gave myself grace to explore other things. And that's the biggest takeaway that I really want in this book for your audience to really hear is, guys, it's not about what Lisa does, it's not about what Chase does, it's about what is that goal you're trying to get to, what is getting in your way and what are tips and tactics I can maybe help tell, but that you can then take and do your version of?
Lisa Bilyeu: Because like you said, it's like Evernote works for me and you, but I don't want people to get caught up in Evernote if that isn't what works for them. The point being is, how do you continuously move forward on that dream and goal you have, and what is the messiness and beauty that is you? And that's what I ended up just doing and leaning into. And it is messy and quirky and weird.
Chase Jarvis: Yeah. I think if I might add a punctuation to that, that what it sounds like and what now I'm replaying my own experience on these vectors. And the takeaway isn't necessarily the how for me it's, and me and you it's Evernote, and for you it's working out, and for me it happens to be meditating.
Chase Jarvis: But the thing that you ought to be aware of is the commonalities from high performers. That some way to clear your mind is valuable. Some way to state your goals is valuable. It seems like that is a worthy takeaway. And to be very clear, this is in your new book, which I'm very excited, and thank you for sharing with me.
Lisa Bilyeu: Thank you.
Chase Jarvis: Radical Confidence: 10 No-BS Lessons on Becoming the Hero of Your Own Life. I want to switch topics and it is a little bit away from the internal because, A, we've spent a lot of time there. I think that's the right way to be in the show because most of our challenge and our opportunity, those are internal.
Chase Jarvis: But I want to understand your view on what I think is, for better or worse is just, it's a reality. And you face this reality. You articulate this in the book and on your YouTube show, Women of Impact, you've discussed this at length with other women. At some point, the changes that you make, let's say you are successful on some aspects, the personal confidence, the awareness, the goal setting, moving toward your goals. At some point, there is likely going to be a collision between the changing you, in this case, the changing Lisa, and other people in your life who have, based on your previous actions, drawn a box around you, or have an understanding of you.
Chase Jarvis: And when you start to press up against the vision that other people have, in your case perhaps it was your father, or I'm curious, what were some of your strategies? Did you experience resistance? You've talked about the lightweight ways in which you and your father had some, I would just call it some kerfuffle.
Lisa Bilyeu: You could say that.
Chase Jarvis: But I'm going to use a more concrete example. You articulate very clearly that you were a housewife and you were supporting Tom in his vision because you were working in the shipping department for Quest Nutrition, and you started to make these changes, I'll use the word, transform your life.
Chase Jarvis: At some point, you said not for me anymore, the new me. And clearly, there has to be, because of this societal construct that we inhabit, some friction. Let's just take you there. You start to get some friction. I believe that one of the blockers that most people fall back on, and even if they're willing to say all the things you said and make some of the changes, as soon as they start coming up into conflict with, especially with people they love and with people who love them, it gets awkward. So, you're eight years in realizing this is not my goal. And you start to change. How do you manage that friction?
Lisa Bilyeu: And are you talking of friction with my husband or friction with my dad? Because there's two frictions there.
Chase Jarvis: Sure. We've already talked about your dad, let's talk about frictions with your husband. And just to be crystal with any listener, whether this is your husband, partner, spouse, wife, brother, sister, mother, the fact that there are frictions when you are changing, let's be very clear. You have to know that this will happen. Do not be surprised that when you start, you've thought of yourself as one way and you start to change physically, emotionally, mentally, that the world will say, "Wait a minute, you are changing."
Chase Jarvis: And whether they like it or don't like it, that's actually secondary, the fact that they are going to lock in on, A, change, and B, likely some sort of a resistance because that's new and different for them. In this case, I want to explore having, sensibly, the person you're closest to in the world, your husband, how did that change manifest? How were you able to overcome it, communicate about it? Because that's a big blocker for people.
Lisa Bilyeu: Yeah. I'm sure there's going to be no surprise to anyone listening that I'm going to say that first I try to do both. Right? Like we all do. It's like you have an identity. And my identity was a supportive wife. And so, that was the identity I took in as I was shipping bars from my living room floor. And it was like, "Well, I'm a good wife, I'm going to help out." Until the company started to really grow and I started to realize, "Oh, okay. I'm going to the office every day now, because again, it was growing at 57000%."
Lisa Bilyeu: So, it became just a helping out for five minutes a day to now it was becoming a full-time job. And as I was going in every day doing longer and longer hours, of course that part of me that had the identity of being the wonderful wife didn't want to let that go. I didn't want to let my husband down. It was something I had been taught, so I tried to do both.
Lisa Bilyeu: And in that process of trying to do both, of course, what a surprise, I wasn't doing anything amazingly well and I wasn't happy along the way. So, as I started to realize and I started to assess, oh my God, I feel like I'm being poured in so many directions, because I didn't want my change to impact the people I love. I didn't want people to go, "Oh my God, she's changing. Who is she?" I tried to balance both.
Lisa Bilyeu: And of course, that just became so difficult to do. I wasn't happy. I was trying to make other people happy as I was trying to go on my own journey. That didn't work. So I was like, "Okay, I have to make a decision. And I love business. I had no idea I would and I love it." And so I was like, "I actually don't think I want to be a supportive wife anymore."
Lisa Bilyeu: And it was like, "I don't want to put my clothes out for my husband anymore. I don't want to cook him dinner. And in those moments it's like, but I still love him more than life itself. Right? He's still very important to me." And you said that earlier, it's when it's people in your life that you love that's the hardest.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, here I was saying, I promised my husband, not even promised, I said, I wanted four children when we got married. I was taking care of him, every single need he had to the point where he was waking up in the morning, his work clothes were right next to him. He would get to the gym, come back, I would have his lunch ready for him.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, I was like, "I really don't want to do that anymore. And how on earth am I going to tell him that?" Because this could actually be a make or break in our relationship. I don't know. He says he wants me to be happy. I say I want him to be happy. But in this moment I realized I wasn't happy in doing both, so I had to speak up.
Lisa Bilyeu: And now, how on earth, to your point, do you have these conversations? I knew I was doing myself a disservice by not speaking up. I had had eight years of it where I didn't realize I was doing it. And now being thrust into the growth of Quest, I now realized. And so, I realized what life I could have. I never questioned it before, but now I did.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, I was like, "I have to talk to Tom. It's going to be difficult, but we have to have this conversation." So, knowing, number one, having compassion for the person that you're talking to. Because they're going to have their perspective, they're going to have their emotions, they're going to have their feelings. And I think it is absolutely dismissive of me to go in and say, "This is who I am now. And you have to accept it." That's dismissive to him, the fact that he's going to have feelings behind it.
Lisa Bilyeu: So as a partner, I go, or if it's a parent, or a friend, say, if you really care about them, go into the situation knowing they're going to have feelings about your change. Now, where do their feelings come from? Is it from their own insecurity? Is it from their own discomfort? Is it coming from their own belief system that now you're challenging? I do all the work before I have the talk.
Lisa Bilyeu: So with Tom, it's not like his mindset. It was about though the fact that I was actually, my change, was making his life very difficult. Right? He had a certain lifestyle. We'd been doing it for eight years. And me changing the pitch up on him was absolutely going to make his life more difficult.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, I think, just like I would want him to come to me and recognize that, I wanted to give him the same respect. So, when I started to approach it, I was like, "Okay, I have to approach it with respect and say, 'Babe, I recognize I'm the one changing and I recognize this is actually going to be a little uncomfortable for both of us until we navigate this.'"
Lisa Bilyeu: So, giving him the respect, then giving him the grace to have an opinion that he must say out loud. Not trying to shut him down, actually giving him space to tell me how he feels about it. Doesn't mean he's not going to be on board, but just saying, "Babe, I want you to tell me how you feel." So, that's the next key.
Lisa Bilyeu: Then the final thing is making sure you approach it, like if your, I, obviously it's my partner, so it's somewhat like I think of it as like, hey look, we want this relationship to work. And I do think that with a parent and a friend. If you actually really are friends with them and you actually do want your friendship to work and they do too, then go into it saying, we're a team. And that's exactly what I did with my husband. It's like, "Babe."
Lisa Bilyeu: And the analogy I like to use is tennis. You can either, with your partner, or with a friend, or with a parent, are you playing a game of singles? You're on one side of their net, they're on the other, they throw the ball to you, you hit it back. But the goal is for you to win or are you playing a game of doubles, where with this person that you're trying to talk to about your change, about maybe this friction, are they on the same side? Because if you're playing doubles, now the whole goal is, you're in it together. You both want to win together.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, how on earth do you discuss things so that the point being, if I miss the ball, your mate has your back, your partner has your back, your parent has your back. They need to know where your weaknesses are. They need to know where you're moving so that they can then have your back to have where maybe, oh my God. Okay, you're moving left. Great. I'm going to move right.
Lisa Bilyeu: Now, if you approach it like that, if you approach it with open arms like I did with Tom, it was like, "Babe, we both want this relationship to be happy. We both want each other to be happy." And so I said, "Babe, right now I'm not happy. The last eight years, I actually haven't spoken up and I haven't been meaningful. I've lived a life where I didn't recognize myself. And over this last year or two, where I've been thrown into Quest, I found myself. And babe, while I love you more than life itself, I really don't want to put clothes out for you anymore, it's not satisfying to me, it's not satisfying to me to cook for you. It's not about you. I need you to know that I love you. And now, because I'm now finding happiness, I would love your assistance on helping me make this transition, because we're partners and I can't do it alone."
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, what do you think he said, Chase? He was like, "Oh my God, babe, what kind of husband would I be if you've just told me that this is making you happy and I say to you, I want you to give up your happiness for my comfort?" He's like, "That's not the husband I want to be. So, of course, I'm going to support you, but we need to come up with a way that we can do this, where it becomes like a stepping stone."
Lisa Bilyeu: So I said, "Okay. Number one, babe, grieve the wife you thought I was going to be, and I'll give you space to grieve that. And what can I do to support that grief? Secondly, I need to grieve the wife I thought I was going to be. And that's okay. I've made a decision that feels right to me. But just because you're moving towards something you love doesn't mean that you're not upset about moving away from something."
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, I gave myself the grace, I gave my husband the grace. And then the last thing was, I said to him, now let's actually have a strategy in place that shows you that I respect this transition. So, I came up with an idea. I was like, "All right, babe. I cook and clean for you for seven days a week now, what if next week I do it for six days, and then the week after that, I'm going to do it for five days, and then the week after that, I'm going to do it for four days? That shows you, gets you your feet under you so that you know, like, okay, crap, what shirt am I going to wear? Whatever."
Lisa Bilyeu: And then by the end, I want, I want, nothing to do with him but me, on Saturday and Sunday, babe, I want to cook for you, because this is how I want to feel. And I love that feeling.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, we worked through it. We came up with a strategy, we came up with a plan, the whole thing was communicating. And at the end of the day it was, and we all know, in order to move towards our dreams, there are going to be moments where you have to get uncomfortable.
Lisa Bilyeu: And so, I know that was very detailed, but that was exactly how I took this transformation where there could have been massive friction. We could have end up in divorce. That's the truth, Chase. And everyone says, "Oh my God, you guys are so freaking lucky to be together for 20 years." We're about celebrate our 20 year wedding anniversary.
Lisa Bilyeu: And I keep saying, it's got nothing to do with luck. In these moments, in these very specific moments, we could have got divorced. He could have said, "You're changing your mind." Or I could have gone in saying, "I don't want to fricking be a housewife anymore. I don't like this life. I'm changing. You need to jump on board." He could have turned around and said, "What the hell? This isn't the wife I married. This isn't the person you said you were going to be. You said you were going to have four children and now you don't want any. What the hell. You're changing your pitch. Let's get divorced."
Lisa Bilyeu: All these things could have very much have happened. But what we did is we knew, we positioned, what is our goal? To be married for the rest of our lives. Going to go back to goal. To be happily married for the rest of our lives. And so, we kept coming together and said, "How do we keep working towards this goal?" And that's how we ended up doing it.
Chase Jarvis: It's a brilliant deconstruction of it. And the detail, I think, encapsulates so much. You said the word communication a number of times. And I would ask the listeners and watchers to envision yourself having that conversation with loved ones, with peers, partners, spouses, parents, career counselors, the people who have largely understood a previous version of who we are and whom it would be disrespectful not to communicate what you're actually feeling.
Chase Jarvis: And if you can take that blueprint, I would say perhaps the best blueprint I've ever heard-
Lisa Bilyeu: Thank you.
Chase Jarvis: ... and apply it, that would eliminate what I consider to be the second largest hurdle in people changing their lives is once you reconcile that you're not happy and that you want to change and that you're capable of it, the next thing you look around and you're like, "All right, there's a bunch of shit that I have to break in order to achieve those things." And it doesn't have to end in divorce or some of the outcomes that we might envision for the other people in our lives, if you follow your advice. So, absolutely lovely. Thank you so much for sharing that.
Chase Jarvis: And a corollary of this story and what you talked about it being hard, and let's reference the conversation you had about with your father. There's a chapter in the book called, when the shit hits the fan, wear goggles. So, you've articulated in a couple of experiences with your father, and with your partner and husband, Tom, the transition, but you haven't really talked about when it gets messy. And obviously chapter 10 in the book does just that.
Chase Jarvis: So, share with me the being a learner, failing and getting back up, awareness of imperfection. Talk to me about wearing goggles.
Lisa Bilyeu: Yeah. This chapter, it was one of those things that was like, if there's one message, it's that. Because so many of us worry about failure. And I think that that's where a lot of our paralysis may come from. It's we don't want to fail. And the reason we don't want to fail, at least for me, was I was already bullied and teased as a kid. So, the last thing I wanted was another reason to feel badly about myself.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, as I started to grow and really develop a growth mindset, I realized I was spending so much time and energy on the wrong thing. I was so worried about failing that... Let me back up. I was so worried about failing that I wouldn't move forward. But the truth is, you tell me one fricking successful person that hasn't failed. No one. No one. There's not one successful person that hasn't failed.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, okay. If we know that, if we know failure is inevitable in going after any of your dreams, then how on earth do you stop worrying about failing and just start thinking about, well, when the shit does hit the fan, what am I going to do about it? So, that's why I was like, "Wear goggles."
Lisa Bilyeu: And I think also the point about failure is we think that it does say something about us, right? That we are bad, that we are terrible, that we are stupid, that we are incompetent. And the truth is, is that I think of failure as being, the message it says about you is that you actually care, is that you're actually caring about what your life looks like, what goals you have and what dreams you have. Because you need to try things in order to get there. And failure is a beautiful example and a highlight of the fact that you're trying.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, when I found out, I tried to give myself a pat on the back and say, "See, Lisa, at least you gave it a shot." So, it's the certain mantras and things the way I position things to reframe it. So, that's one thing. Then also, I think failure becomes this moment of how do you handle it when it happens? There's two types of failures, I think. One failure when no one's looking.
Lisa Bilyeu: And Chase, it's so much easier to be like, "Phew, no one saw that one. Let's never admit it. Let's sweep it under the rug." The problem is, in those moments, you're missing an opportunity to learn. Now, when failure happens in front of everybody, sometimes again, that's so petrifying that we never even put ourselves in a position to be able to fail in front of people.
Lisa Bilyeu: Now, what I've realized is, is that facing your failures can be the biggest lesson, the biggest opportunity if you let it. Now, this came about, if I can share a little story with you.
Chase Jarvis: Please, I love it.
Lisa Bilyeu: Okay. Quest Nutrition, it's early days. Now, I don't have a growth mindset at this point. And I'm fearing failure every which way. I'm helping build our shipping department, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I'm learning all along the way. I'm like, "All right. So, the UPS guy said that he can pick up more packages if I put it on a pallet. What the hell is a pallet? Let me..." So I literally run to Google, type in what the hell is a pallet. So again, just to give an example of how inadequate I was at what I was doing.
Lisa Bilyeu: So, each day comes up, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm trying to figure it out. One day, we have just enough money to hire a couple of people to help our production facility, to help make the bars. And so, we're running a batch of bars, one guy comes into the office and he looks ghostly white. He's like, "I'm so sorry. I've messed up a massive batch of bars."
Lisa Bilyeu: Now, in the early days of startups, every penny fricking counts. Every penny. So this batch of bars was about $5,000. So, in my head, I've already gone to the worst case scenario. Oh my God. Have I just lost my house. Has the company gone bankrupt? I go into panic mode. My husband though gets up and he's like, "Before you panic, let's just go see what we've got."
Lisa Bilyeu: So, we walk into the facility and the guy is like, "All right, I was making a peanut butter batch of bars and I had all the three, the batches that I was making, I had them all lined up. It was peanut butter, then it was going to be mixed berry bar and then it was going to be lemon bar.
Lisa Bilyeu: So he was like, "So I'm working on the peanut butter. I put in the peanut butter protein powder, I put in the peanut butter nuts, I put in the..." Like basically put in everything peanut butter. And then he went to grab the flavoring and picked up the mixed berry flavoring instead. And he's like, "So it's a ruined batch."
Lisa Bilyeu: So, Tom turns around. He's like, "Well, let's just give it a try. Let everyone just try it." So, we're all holding our breaths, the love of the startup company, the things we end up doing. So we're holding our breaths. We're trying it. And someone turns around and is like, "It kind of tastes like PB and J."
Lisa Bilyeu: And in that moment we're like, "Oh, what if we put them in nondescript packaging, we print out on my staples printer, the nutrition information for peanut butter bars," because the only difference was the flavoring. So the nutrition value was still the same. Because you're not legally allowed to sell food product without nutrition value, but we could easily do it.
Lisa Bilyeu: So we just printed out on my staples printer. We had 200 boxes. We make an announcement on Facebook, guys, new prototype, limited edition. Dude, we sold out like that. Within two hours, we sold 200 boxes. Within a couple of days, we had shipped them out. People were trying them. People were blasting on Facebook, because it was back in the Facebook days, blasting on Facebook, how amazing this new bar is. People that didn't get to actually try that flavor now had massive FOMO because they were like, "I want to try the PB and J bar."
Lisa Bilyeu: So, within a couple of weeks, we got the design done, we got packaging done. We put it up for sale and it became a number one selling protein bar flavor at that time. And that's when I realized, "Oh my God, if I can look at every failure as an opportunity, it forces you to get out of your own emotion, it forces you to think in a different way and it forces you to think about, if this was the best thing that ever happened, what would I do?
Lisa Bilyeu: And now it's giving you a perspective and a part to actually focus on instead of focusing on the failure and what that failure means about you.
Chase Jarvis: Absolutely incredible. And thank you for telling the story. As you know, we learn in stories. You're a master storyteller, so that will not leave my brain. And I will just tip the hat to, if you enjoy this, what Lisa's sharing, again, the book Radical Confidence, we're going to share this episode during your pub week so people can press the buy button-
Lisa Bilyeu: Thank you.
Chase Jarvis: ... and get it that week. I highly recommend it. And also, Women of Impact, you're more than 300 episodes in now. And I'll say, as a male, I have enjoyed the numerous episodes. Again, talking about psychotherapy, ending manipulation, overcoming fear, the background of behavioral science. There's all kinds of things that, despite being called the Women of Impact, have got a lot of value.
Lisa Bilyeu: I love that.
Chase Jarvis: And again, just kudos on the book. I want to wrap up by asking you a question, if there are other things or other ways that our community can be of service to you in your mission and vision, where would you point us? Are there some things that you want us to know about? I know you and Tom are building Impact Theory, and that has all kinds of facets from NFTs, to comic books and YouTube shows and original programming and everything in between, but where would you steer us? How could we get involved?
Lisa Bilyeu: Yeah, thank you so much. If anyone wants to hear more about Radical Confidence, they can go to radicalconfidence.com. Instagram is a place for me, Lisa Bilyeu on Instagram, where, especially my stories, I always show the real stuff. I'm like, I don't like BS-ing anyone, so I do morning photos in the morning with how I think, or certain tips and stuff like that of how I actually motivate myself. So that's on Instagram.
Lisa Bilyeu: And then, yeah, you've got impacttheory.com. If they want to know more about the show and our Web3 world that we're now getting into, which is super fricking exciting, and scary mind you, because it's such an evolving thing that you think you know what you're doing and then the next day something new comes out. So, that's actually right now where I'm trying to build Radical Confidence in is in the Web3 world.
Chase Jarvis: Excellent. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a treat. You have done such a nice job of articulating, I think, some of the biggest challenges that all of us who want to transform will face, both internally and externally. We'll always have you in the show anytime you've got something to share, we're happy to share your vision.
Chase Jarvis: And thanks again for being on the show. Until next time, out there, everybody in the world, again, Radical Confidence is Lisa's new book and you know where else to find her on the internet. And just one more time, spelling B-I-L-Y-E-U.
Lisa Bilyeu: Thank you.
Chase Jarvis: Of course. Of course. But signing us, to everyone who's listening, thank you so much for paying attention to this show and what we do here. And until next time, from Lisa and I, we both bid you adieu.
Lisa Bilyeu: Bye.
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